Pine Musky bait update Two

The pine batch is ready for weight.  The lip install went relatively easy and clean on this batch.
When Frank and Tom had installed their lips, we used a syringe and a wet rag to dampen the slot . The Gorilla glue is moisture cured, so there is a need to wet the surface before gluing. I had a small artist paint brush and decided to use it to moisten the slot. This worked out well and was very controllable. I also used a small flat blade screw driver to butter the slot in the bait with the Gorilla glue. You only need a small amount, it does expand 3 times of what is used.
I would suggest that the lip slot be cut to hold the lip without falling out, but not so tight that you have to use pressure and wiggle it into the slot. This will allow for a good bond. Any type of glue or adhesive has an optimal film thickness in order to create a bond, you have to allow the space for this to happen. Gorilla glue is no different. The glue starts to expand almost immediately with the right amount of moisture. This process keeps the lip from sliding around . You still have to baby sit them as you go. 

The temperature was in the low 60s for the first batch and high 70s for the second. I noticed on the last batch that the glue was activating faster ( foaming ) and set quicker. We will see how it works on Al's lips.
I do have some rather shallow slots in these baits for the lips, but this glue seems to really hold tight.
On all lip installs, we rough up the surface area on the lip that is going to be glued. This is a good practice, but I did not. As of yet , I have seen no difference in bonding strength. With the depth of my slots , I feel the Gorilla glue is holding better than epoxy would.   
As I set and finished aligning one bait lip, I would go back and wipe the foamed Gorilla glue off the previous one. This keeps it a bit cleaner and less to sand later.

I did run a small bead of epoxy around the lip, where it meets the wood body. I don't know if it is needed, but for the extra strength it adds I think it is worth the time. This to was applied with a very small screw driver and 5 minute epoxy. 

A few belly screw eyes some hooks and it's on to lead! 

The eye locations are rattle chambers and will get epoxied in 3d stick on eyes. I prefer to have a small pocket to glue the eyes into and this works well.

( Keep it in the Water )

Bait building, rattles and slot

Well, progress has been a bit slow but we should be able to start installing some lips ( bibs ) today.
These are some pics of the rattle chambers and slot.

I think for the most part everyone is finished with rattles and have put in the front and rear screw eyes. We leave the hook hangers out until after lip installation. The jigs we have were made for 14" baits, so the hole for hangers are not there for the smaller ones.

My 10" baits are .052 wire and the 14" perch baits I used .062. I am also adding a cut down worm tail to 2 of the perch baits using a plastic screw wall anchor. I will get some pics to show.
We are also going to try using Gorilla glue on the lips.  I did a test bait with some and it was impressive. With epoxy lip installs you can normally get the lip to crack loose by hand. On this, I had to put the lip in a vise and twist it from the tail of the bait to break it loose. This was in a 14" bait!
I haven't had time to play much with the aspen baits but I will get going on them again.
There are some added pics from the lip install. The Gorilla glue really seemed to hold well, and was a much cleaner install on the lips. Next they will get a bead of epoxy at the lip to wood area for extra strength. The jigs shown are a real help in aligning the lip, making it as true as we can get them.The hot dog boards are for holding the baits during different processes.
The worm tail attachment was relatively simple also. The rear hook hanger was held in, as to allow a barb to be placed in the worm tail . This was with the thought of keeping the hook secured to the tail and not flopping around. Maybe it will pay off for all those following nippers, that love to nip the tails off.  

( Keep it in the Water )

Update to Bait Build 2012

A Propionate Soak.

In my attempt to stay a little ahead on the build, I needed to get my pine batch into the propionate. Time just wasn't working with me. I decided to break up the 36 pine baits into three separate jars, 10", 8", and 6". This entailed arranging the baits in the jars so they were submerged and weighted to stay there. Then sealed the jars. When time permitted I would open the jars and let them breathe. There wasn't a lot of room at the tops and I thought it would help in maintaining negative pressure in the jar to let the air escape ( burping).

I do not have a formula for the mix, surprise. I use the mix ratio once at the beginning and change it for my needs, that's where a thick and thin jar comes in. This mix was closer to water than 2% milk, some where in between I guess? I was looking for a penetrating soak, trying to seal the bait's not just coat them. So as time permitted, 48 hours later?  I ran some temp screw eyes in and hung them up to dry. Once they dried out I did a quick dip in the same jars and let them dry. The next day I was able to sand them down.

As I was sanding, I realized that the consistency and feel of the propionate on these baits ( you can see the difference between raw wood sanding dust and propionate sanding dust ) was that of my baits from last year. Last years baits were soaked three times and coated three times? All tolled, about a day's work.

I am only looking to seal the pine wood bait's and think this worked well to do just that. I find no need to build a coating of propionate on the surface as we use a 2 part automotive primer for paint.
If you are using propionate, keep in mind the film thickness of a coating and what you are trying to accomplish.
A coating is better achieved with a little thicker mix, a soak a little thinner. I have not had a lot of success with the propionate as a clear top coat, nor have I put the time in to perfect it. There really isn't a wrong way of doing it. This just gave me the time to accomplish my task, with the same or better results.
Note. Unless you like watching the air bubbles, you do not have to use glass jars. Just make sure what ever you do use doesn't melt from the acetone?

( Keep it in the Water )
 

Musky Bait Build 2012

The Musky Bait build for this year has finally started.

It appears that we will be a man down, so Al has 80 some old baits and 20 new 10" to wrap up. We have been helping to get him caught up. Frank is in the 36 to 40 range. Tom is building 19 or 29 and I have 36 pine and trying about 30, 3/4"aspen on some drop belly, jerk, glider type baits. I haven't made any of these type before, just wanted to try a few. We will see how it works out?

We planed all of the wood down , just in case we need more baits to work with! Cut them to size, slotted the lip and copied our patterns the first day.
The blade we are using for the lip slot is a little light of an 1/8th inch, so after slotting we need to run a 1/8" drill bit thru the slot for the lips to fit. The bit follows the cut slot real well .  

The earlier preparation in lure type and lip patterns paid off at this point.
Second day in, was to locate and mark hook hanger locations, line tie and rattle chambers. Decide if you are using the eye location for rattles and or the body of the bait, along with how large to make the chamber?
Then we started drilling and cutting out the patterns, along with shaping the baits on the sander. Al still needs to shape his batch for this year.

There are a lot of mixed thoughts on rattles and a lot of good articles explaining the idea. All ideas are good , if it puts Muskies in the boat!
If you have one belief, then you are able to rationalize why the others aren't as good, you should keep an open mind . I prefer a little more of a deadened rattle verses a higher pitched one and will probably stick with one chamber in a bait.I have come to prefer the rattle in the body rather than the eye location, there is just more movement in the body area as the lure moves thru the water.

Frank and I will be using thru wire on the 10" baits, so they will need wire bent up. The rest will all be screw eyes. We will all be using 3D stick on eyes.

 I had a chance to start routing the edges on my stock pile, but need to get a 3/8" round over for the 3/4" baits. The 1/4" round over works fine on them, I just want to make the drop belly glider type a little  rounder.
I get a kick out of it at this point. The wood is taking shape and becoming a fishing lure.

We also started a propionate soak going on Al's baits from last year. We didn't want to end up trying to dip 200 baits when it came time to do this years.
You will see in the pictures we abandoned the glass jars for this. To many baits for jars. The pictures are from the second dip, we do try to cover the bucket to keep fumes down and ventilate as best as we can.
The first dip was a bit over an hour, the second a bit over a half hour. When they came out off the bucket on the second dip, they were dipped in a jar of a little thinner propionate , then hung to dry.
This is all pine wood with the exception of a small batch of aspen this year.

I did grab a 3/8" round over bit from the Depot, the 3/4" aspen are starting to look pretty cool!
Still have to sand them down and drill for screw eyes and rattles.

In case you haven't guessed by now, I don't always follow the rules? I also got a soak in on my pine baits.

Music provided by Justin Somerville.

 ( Keep it in the Water )

Propionate Sealer for Wood Muskie Baits - by Frank

Wood Muskie Baits need to be completely sealed prior to priming and painting.  If you've read "Construction basics for Wood Musky Lures"  -  We'd suggested, after all the wood working  (planing, cutting, drilling, shaping and sanding) has been completed, it's time to seal the wood....

What you'll need to start:

* Propionate pellets.
* Acetone - to dissolve the pellets.  
* Wide mouth jars with seal-able lids.
* A method of submerging your baits - they'll want to float.
* A method of hanging your bait's as they dry.

Steps to make and use Propionate as a Penetrating Sealer and a Base coat:

* Jar #1 needs a ratio of 1 oz. Propionate pellets per 11 ounces of Acetone.  This may take 3 to 5 days to  completely dissolve and Jar #1 will have the consistency of 2% milk.  This is the mixture for soaking.

* Jar #2 needs a ratio of 2 oz. Propionate  pellets per 10 ounces of Acetone.  Again, this may take 3 to 5 days to dissolve (you can speed up this process by shaking the sealed jars, or stirring with an unpainted stick).  This mixture will have the consistency of warm thin honey.  This mixture is used to build a tough base coat.

Soaking/Sealer:  Jar #1 - This thin mixture penetrates and seals the pours of wood, while also raising the grain.  Start by submerging the baits for 30 - 60 minutes until you no longer see air bubbles coming out of the wood.  Remove the baits and hang to dry until all the vapors are gone, approx 30 minutes at the most.  Lightly sand to a smooth surface, and soak again in Jar #1 for about 15 minutes, hang to dry about 15 minutes.  Final and third soak until bubbles are no longer visible.  Note:  If your wood has bubbles on the surface after it's dry, then give it a light sanding before proceeding to Jar #2.

Building a Base Coat:  Jar #2 - Dip baits in Jar #2 - swirl it around a couple of times and pull it out letting it drip back into Jar #2 - hang and allow to dry.  Note: Fishing lures should be dipped alternating head first, then tail first, to create an even coat.  After dipping as many times as needed (some prefer dipping 7 to 10 times) the baits are ready for scuffing and primer.  Please note: Minimal sanding or scuffing is required between coats, just enough to smooth air bubbles or runs before the next dip.  Acetone has the chemical properties to etch itself, so adhesion within multiple dips is constant.

This is the best way we've found to seal our baits, and so far, this has eliminated paint/finish failures.

To purchase Propionate - David Beacham <dbeacham@sc.rr.com>     Email David Beacham for Propionate purchases.  David includes instructions with every purchase.

These are some Propionate tips from David Beacham:

"New tips for Propionate...

I am now using one jar of thin and I keep a jar of super thick just to add to the thin jar when needed.  With the thin jar I get better cover and a very smooth finish with just a few extra dips.  Drying time is faster and any bubbles that may be on the bait will pop easier when it is removed from the jar to drip.

To make the super thick jar, I will just add about 1 part pellets and 4 parts acetone.  This takes longer to dissolve but it will stay ready to add to your thin jar any time you need a refill.  All you need to do is add about 1 part thick and about 3 to 4 parts acetone.  Just a light stir will mix it in."

Thanks for Reading,,, and best of luck this season!!

Frank

Warning: Acetone is extremely flammable, and needs to be used safely, in a well ventilated area.  Respirators should be worn while Soaking and Sealing baits!!  Please,,,, Safety First!!

Installation of Lips-Bibs for baits?

Well , it sounds like Frank has the materials ordered to get started on this years batch. As soon as it arrives we will be Building Musky Baits in the Garage.
 As with every year, a question on our procedures is brought up in an attempt to make and do the best we can. This time we are questioning on how we could do a better lip install?

First, a little history on the technique we have bee using.
With the exception of last year, all our baits have been thru wire construction. The lure body was slotted to except the wire. With that said, the lip was also slotted  to allow it to be installed in the body around the wire. Our line ties are at the noses of the bait , not in the lip.
The wire would be inserted, lip epoxied in and the slot filled with West System epoxy, a very fluid epoxy.
This epoxy would seep thru the lip area and fill any remaining voids in the lip slot. This made for a very strong bond of the lip to the bait.
After that had all set for a couple of days we would then apply a small bead of epoxy at the body to lip area.
This was to ensure a good seal and bond of the Lexan to the wood. Similar to what a weld bead looks like.  This did not always turn out to be a clean lip installation.
As in a professional look?

So the questioned has been raised, as to what we can do to make the lip installation better, now that we are using screw eyes. There is no slot in the lip and no West system epoxy to fill it.
 

We are looking for the strongest and cleanest installation of plastic Lexan lips as possible.
Can this be a one step process or is it multiple steps?
Should the lip still have a slot or drilled hole for the epoxy to grab onto? 

All I have come up with, is to use the smallest amount of 5 minute epoxy to set the lip, let it sit for 30 minutes and then apply the bead at the body lip line. This timing arrangement would be, trying to get all epoxy to cure together as best as possible. Of course babysit the bait until the epoxy sets

Any thoughts or suggestions on this would be appreciated.

I know we could be opening the "secrets" of the world here, but we are just trying to help others and ourselves to build lures with as much knowledge as  possible.

( Keep it in the Water )

Muskie Lip ( Bib) , Building Decisions

Where to place the lip, what angle to use, what type and how big or small of a lip are all decisions that should be determined before we start cutting wood. This is with glued in polycarbonate type lips.

If you chose to use a metal screw on lip there is a little more latitude in timing. Even with a metal lip that is going to be installed in a slot, thought preparation in slot placement is necessary. I have not used a lot of screw on metal lips but they definitely have there place and are easy to use. If you think about it ,as you progress there are a lot of little quirks and preferences you will acquire, good and bad.

This is the selection of lips I will be choosing from to go with my bait patterns.   

My picks will all be an 1/8th inch thick. They do offer 1/16" and 3/16" but the selection of styles is limited.  Unless you are cutting your own lips or custom order, I have not found a supplier for thicker lips with a variety of sizes to choose from in small quantities. The lips here are from the Musk Shop. There are metal and square lips also. Hit the link and you will be able to see all. If you find a better source please let us know.

I have made several copies of my patterns and copies of the lips, They are shown in actual size in the catalog. Then I make and cut out hard paper copies to play with. I will figure out how I want a particular bait to act, slot the pattern and see how the lip size and placement looks. Doing this, helps me in the visual aspect.
Once the pattern is selected I pick a lip for the type of action I am looking for. The angle is based off what you have or know. I have come to prefer a 45degree angle with both round and square lips..    

If you are unsure, take a look at your collection of store bought baits. Pull them out of hibernation and lay them out or hang them up. Use a sliding T bevel ( about $8.00 at the Depot) or your kids plastic protractor to find the angles being used. From that you will be able to decide on what angles you want based on knowing the action of the baits. Remember that bible, this is where it comes in use. Hopefully you are making more than one bait, start writing done what you are going to do with each bait. Also think about sinking, floating and neutrally buoyant.  You don't need to know right now but it can help with lip type selection, just make note of your intent.

Get some measurements on the distance from the nose of the bait to the lip. This will give you some benchmarks to refer to as your selection process continues.
Same bait, same lip,same angle with the lip moved forward or backward from the original point will impart a different action. Some times this may be very subtle and others it can be drastic. I think large mass flat sided baits are influenced the most by this.
The large 14" baits we make has a side to side flop, which is awesome but by moving the lip forward a 1/4" to 3/8" it changes the action to a tight figure eight wobble. Same everything except lip placement and you now have two completely different action. Normally, if we are going to change lip placement we only make a few, then see how they work.The lip angle has been tried with 40 degrees and 50 degrees, action was relatively the same and depth changed.

The depth of a lip inserted into the bait should be enough to secure it soundly but not deep enough to split it the first time it hits something. A lip protruding past the sides of a bait acts totally different than one flush to the sides. You really have to play around a little to see what you want to build. With a little practice a couple of errors and you can trim the sides of the lips to be flush with your bait. It's all about lines and accuracy at that point. It is a very doable task, if that is what you are looking for.
Play around with some patterns and lips now, and you won't be spinning your wheels when it's time to build.

This is where I got to with my bait and lip patterns. Mite be some tweaking before wood , but I am ready.
Now to figure out if I am going to do two or four of each. Just another decision!


( Keep it in the water )